Thursday, February 24, 2011

I HATE HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a happy post planned for this morning.  Then I logged into Facebook.  Someone posted a link to an article regarding the defense against marriage act.  Whoops.  I mean the Defense of Marriage Act.  And, maybe I'm just grumpy, or maybe I'm PMSing, or maybe the sky is blue, but it rubbed me the wrong way.  I'll remove the names, even though some people will probably still be able to figure out who it is.  But read the following exchange...then I'll tell you a little story.  [Skip to the end if you don't want to read the Facebook posts.]

PERSON 1:
Geez, it is never ending with these people. Immorality is wrong any way you look at it. Why is it that everyone has rights but white christian people? Diane Feinstein is a moron. When will the people of CA realize what she has done to ruin our economy and our society and boot her the hell out of the seat she holds? Liberalism has destroyed CA and is destroying our nation! Let gays be gays, let them do it in private, they already have the same rights as a married couple, they wanted civil unions and they got them, what's the problem? The problem is they want to defile that which is sacred, the holy union between a man and a woman. That's what it comes down to, defiling God.
Source: http://www.contracostatimes.com/top-stories/ci_17463241

ME:     What is "marriage" anyway? "Marriage" isn't about love. You can be in love and not be married. You can be married and not be in love. "Marriage" isn't about sex. You can have sex and not be married. You can be married and not have sex. "Mar...riage" isn't about children. You can have children and not be married. You can be married and not have children. "Marriage" isn't about religion. You can be an atheist and be married. You can be married without a preacher. "Marriage" isn't about vows. You can make vows without being married. You can be married without vows, only an affirmation; "I do". "Marriage" isn't about rings. You can wear rings without being married. You can be married without exchanging rings. Marriage is legally only about property, citizenship, kinship and inheritance. The marriage license is an application for State and Federal benefits granted a specific class of people. All arguments about love, romance, reproduction, religious dogma, tradition and family values are PERSONAL BAGGAGE and cultural ignorance of the legal fiction called marriage. Arguments that aren't about property, citizenship, kinship and inheritance are moot, leaving out most arguments against same sex marriage. Supporters and h8ters both need to learn what marriage ISN'T before trying to argue what it IS. Denying US Citizens benefits granted others on the basis of their sexual orientation is unconstitutional. Denying gays benefits because they offend the sensibilities of bigots is no more valid than denying the bigots the same benefits because "I" am offended by them. - Anonymous 
PERSON 2:     i think its hard to defend traditional marriage because its based on a religious belief, and in our society today proponents of traditional marriage are being asked to debate without that religious context.. citing the so-called 'separation... between church and state'. That being said I'll admit to moving to the left on his issue. I support civil unions, and i don't think people should have to be themselves in 'private'. if gays should be gay in private, then why the hypocrisy in allowing heterosexuals to be heterosexual in public? why the double standard? and why do people insist they are better than other people because they're different?

ME:     It's hard to defend traditional marriage because straight people have ruined it with a 50% divorce rate. And no one is trying to be better than anyone else. Gay people are being denied civil rights. Civil unions do not give 100% of the same rights as marriage. And if they want to be married, I say give it to them. Who cares at the end of the day? If people want to defend God, go sit in your house and be God-like. Who are they to judge? And people in glass houses should not throw stones!
PERSON 1:     Gays aren't denied rights... they have been given civil unions, which civil unions, under one name or another, have been established by law in many developed countries in order to provide same-sex couples rights, benefits, and responsibilities similar to opposite-sex civil marriage. I've never seen straight people running around with flags and having parades and demonstrating their sexuality in public? There's no straight-pride day is there? That's what I meant in public vs. private. If they want to be gay, then fine, they can be gay. Whatever gets them off. 
ME:     And what rights have YOU been denied? You're married. You can still go to church. You are a white male, who knows nothing about being repressed. They are having to wave flags in the street to gain attention that they don't have the same rights as everyone else.

PERSON 2:     i don't even think its about gaining attention. they are attacked, both verbally and physically, they are worn down, they are tired.. and they are finding a way to celebrate who they are.

civil unions? utah doesn't have civil unions.. even ...though Huntsman came out in favor of them
*****
I then posted a note and asked for opinions of my friends:

I want YOUR opinion of gay marriage

by Lori Myers on Thursday, February 24, 2011 at 10:48am
I stole this note from Jimmy, who apparently borrowed it from someone else.  :-)

It makes sense to me.  So read it, then tell me your opinion.  Please, don't be offensive or rude.  Just factually give me YOUR side...why you're on that side, how you back up your facts, etc.  I know I have people on both sides --- very passionately for and against.  Let's keep it clean, though.  Thanks!

----------

What is "marriage" anyway? "Marriage" isn't about love. You can be in love and not be married. You can be married and not be in love. "Marriage" isn't about sex. You can have sex and not be married. You can be married and not have sex. "Marriage" isn't about children. You can have children and not be married. You can be married and not have children. "Marriage" isn't about religion. You can be an atheist and be married. You can be married without a preacher. "Marriage" isn't about vows. You can make vows without being married. You can be married without vows, only an affirmation; "I do". "Marriage" isn't about rings. You can wear rings without being married. You can be married without exchanging rings. Marriage is legally only about property, citizenship, kinship and inheritance. The marriage license is an application for State and Federal benefits granted a specific class of people. All arguments about love, romance, reproduction, religious dogma, tradition and family values are PERSONAL BAGGAGE and cultural ignorance of the legal fiction called marriage. Arguments that aren't about property, citizenship, kinship and inheritance are moot, leaving out most arguments against same sex marriage. Supporters and h8ters both need to learn what marriage ISN'T before trying to argue what it IS. Denying US Citizens benefits granted others on the basis of their sexual orientation is unconstitutional. Denying gays benefits because they offend the sensibilities of bigots is no more valid than denying the bigots the same benefits because "I" am offended by them. - Anonymous

    •  I absolutely agree with this. I believe in marriage equality for all. I feel it's a civil right.


    • Here's what started my rant. Someone I know posted this with a link to something about repealing the Defense Against Marriage Act.

      Geez, it is never ending with these people. Immorality is wrong any way you look at it. Why is it that everyone has rights but white christian people? Diane Feinstein is a moron. When will the people of CA realize what she has done to ruin our economy and our society and boot her the hell out of the seat she holds? Liberalism has destroyed CA and is destroying our nation! Let gays be gays, let them do it in private, they already have the same rights as a married couple, they wanted civil unions and they got them, what's the problem? The problem is they want to defile that which is sacred, the holy union between a man and a woman. That's what it comes down to, defiling God.



    • Whoops. Defense OF Marriage Act. Whatever.


    •  maybe there should be a defence AGAINST marriage :)


    • Technically, 'marriage' is a religious tradition. I have no problem with what is written above but what should occur is that all government sanctioned unions should be called 'civil unions.' Marriage would be something that would be recognized only by a religious entity based upon their laws so if Mormons don't want to marry to men, but will marry one man and two women, so be it. All the government recognizes are those people who register their civil unions. It is a difference of semantics but government should be out of the marriage business and religion should be out of the government business.



    •  There should be. And I hate stupid people. .

    •  
      D, I do agree that traditionally it is. But, like everything else in the world, it should have to be updated for current times, no?



    •  I like to annoy the stupid people who are related to me. Ask Rita about Xmas at my sister's house ;)


    •  lol


    • Update what? People need to be more specific in their language. Its what we have lawyers for :)


    • OMG Lori - I thought you wrote that comment above. I was like "WTF?!" LOL!!! Now I see you said someone you know posted it. Whew. We can still be friends. ;-)


    •  LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    •  God damn you lawyers.


    •  Well Lori, I dont think you should be allowed to marry OR have kids, cause you like sex toys and Im against them. This personal decision gives me the right to have domain over your life.

      Does that make any sense? NO.

      Neither does telling someone who they can marry unless they are your child and they are underage.

      I dont tell my dogs who they can hump. Its their right and their business. OK im done.....wait no im not...



    • I want to marry a watermelon.


    • Truthfully, I don't have an opinion either way. It does state in the bible that marriage is between a man and a woman which is what I believe. However, I do realize that the world is evolving and change is inevitable. What I do have a problem with is I'm on my second marriage and on my first marriage license I'm listed as bride and my ex is listed as groom. On my marriage license for my second marriage, I'm listed as party A and my husband is party B. As a strait couple, why do we have to be party A and party B? Why were we forced to have licenses this way? Wouldn't it make since for those that want bride/groom or husband/wife to be an option on marriage licenses? If we want to be equals, we should be equals but given options to be unique.



    • I agree with D - it seems a feasible way to maintain separation of Church and State...I also agree with him that it is fun to annoy stupid people.


    •  Lori I want to be your tomato of honor


    • I already honor thee, red tomatoe


    •  oh crap
      tomato
      learn how to spell, gay loving loser!
      :-P



    •  yay!


    • I think marriage should harder for straight people to get approved for. I know you go through counseling but I think the counselor should have the right to say yes or no depending on how high or low the chance of them getting a divorce is. Let straight people know what its like to have someone tell them No. You can't get married. And if the girl was pregnant and that's the only reason for the marriage?? Big Fat NO.

*****
Now here is why I am SO furious.   A few years back, Person 1 almost fatally injured a child  - his own child.  He spent no time in real jail.  Got a slap on the wrist.  So, what in the HELL makes him a better person than anyone else in the world?!  Just because he goes to church on Sundays, he's all high and mighty...holier than thou...self-righteous mother fucking bitch?!  Go ahead and sit up on your high horse.  It's going to be a long fall to the ground when you find out you're not going to heaven just because you go to church. 
I know I'm beating a dead horse.  And I don't expect to change people's minds.  If someone comes with a respectful argument, I can at least say, those are your beliefs and you are entitled to them...that's the beauty of a free country.  But when one group's rights need to be infringed upon in order to pacify another group...I just don't get it!  I guess you just can't fix stupid.  

6 comments:

  1. Lori I do not appriciate that. We as a family are trying very hard to move pass that. It is horrible that a family member would bring that up. You have no idea what he has had to go through because of that. Because he did something bad does not mean he can't voice his opinion on gay marriage. Again I care for you and respect you as a person but I have nothing but poor thoughs on this post.

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  2. Why would you out yourself? I never mentioned names. Here is my problem.

    Here is the exact post from your husband:

    Geez, it is never ending with these people. Immorality is wrong any way you look at it. Why is it that everyone has rights but white christian people? Diane Feinstein is a moron. When will the people of CA realize what she has done to ruin our economy and our society and boot her the hell out of the seat she holds? Liberalism has destroyed CA and is destroying our nation! Let gays be gays, let them do it in private, they already have the same rights as a married couple, they wanted civil unions and they got them, what's the problem? The problem is they want to defile that which is sacred, the holy union between a man and a woman. That's what it comes down to, defiling God.

    Now, you were pregnant when you got married in the Mormon Temple, yes? Wouldn't you both have had to lie in order for that to happen? I understand the church finds sex before marriage to be immoral. Your baby was born six months after your marriage, and I assume she wasn't a preemie. So who is defiling the "sanctity of marriage?!" Oh yeah....the fucking gay people who WANT to be seen as equal in the eyes of the law. Of course not idiots like you and Josh who make a joke of your religion and marriage!

    Then, your husband, almost murdered your child. I am pretty sure that murder is also immoral in the church's eyes.

    So now you have a man who, in the eyes of his very own church, has done some immoral things (not even going to get into "forgiveness" here because it can go both ways), yet he's on his high horse talking about the immorality of gay people?!

    GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! Like I said, PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES. Maybe you don't understand what that means. It means that people who are doing things wrong should not point out the "wrongs" of others. Who are you two to judge?!

    You are part of a family that actively hates you and shuns you. Your husband treats you like an idiot and doesn't defend you to his own mother. You aren't allowed at family gatherings because he's decided that his mom's opinion is more important than yours. And you have taught your daughter that a man is more important than your child. A man who constantly tells me not to photograph your child because she's "not photogenic." Or is it that he feels shame for causing the disability that causes her poor little eyes to do what they do?!

    Nicole, I have always defended you to my family. Every time someone would talk about what a piece of shit you are. Never again.

    Now, if you are so offended, don't read my blog! This is my place to say whatever I want.

    ReplyDelete
  3. PART 1:

    For those who think civil unions and marriage give the same protection.

    http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/wedding/a/unionvmarriage.htm

    The Difference between Gay Marriage and Civil Unions

    by Kathy Belge

    You hear the politicians saying it all the time. “I support Civil Unions, but not gay marriage.” What exactly does this mean? Some even say they support equal rights for gays and lesbians, but not gay marriage. Is this possible? And why do gays and lesbians want marriage so badly when they can have civil unions?

    First of all, What is Marriage? When people marry, they tend to do so for reasons of love and commitment. But marriage is also a legal status, which comes with rights and responsibilities. Marriage establishes a legal kinship between you and your spouse. It is a relationship that is recognized across cultures, countries and religions.

    What is a Civil Union? Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships exist in only a handful of places like New Jersey and Washington and Oregon.

    Vermont was the first state to create civil unions in 2000 to provide legal protections to gays and lesbians in relationships in that state because gay marriage was not an option. The protections did not extend beyond the border of Vermont and no federal protections are included with a Civil Union. Civil Unions offer some of the same rights and responsibilities as marriage, but only on a state level.

    What about Domestic partnership? Some states and municipalities have domestic partnership registries, but no domestic partnership law is the same. Some, like Oregon's domestic partnership law comes with many rights and responsibilities. Others offer very few benefits to the couple.
    What are some of the differences between Civil Unions and Gay Marriage?

    Recognition in other states: Even though each state has its own laws around marriage, if someone is married in one state and moves to another, their marriage is legally recognized. For example, Oregon marriage law applies to people 17 and over. In Washington state, the couple must be 18 to wed. However, Washington will recognize the marriage of two 17 year olds from Oregon who move there. This is not the case with Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships. If someone has a Domestic Partnership, that union is not recognized by some states and not others. Some states have even ruled that they do not have to recognize civil unions performed in other states, because their states have no such legal category. As gay marriages become legal in other states, this status may change.

    Immigration:

    A United States citizen who is married can sponsor his or her non-American spouse for immigration into this country. Those with Civil Unions have no such privilege.

    Taxes:

    Civil Unions are not recognized by the federal government, so couples would not be able to file joint-tax returns or be eligible for tax breaks or protections the government affords to married couples.

    Benefits:

    The General Accounting Office in 1997 released a list of 1,049 benefits and protections available to heterosexual married couples. These benefits range from federal benefits, such as survivor benefits through Social Security, sick leave to care for ailing partner, tax breaks, veterans benefits and insurance breaks. They also include things like family discounts, obtaining family insurance through your employer, visiting your spouse in the hospital and making medical decisions if your partner is unable to. Civil Unions protect some of these rights, but not all of them.

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  4. But can’t a lawyer set all this up for gay and lesbian couples?

    No. A lawyer can set up some things like durable power of attorney, wills and medical power of attorney. There are several problems with this, however.

    1. It costs thousands of dollars in legal fees. A simple marriage license, which usually costs under $100 would cover all the same rights and benefits.

    2. Any of these can be challenged in court. As a matter of fact, more wills are challenged than not. In the case of wills, legal spouses always have more legal power than any other family member.


    3. Marriage laws are universal. If someone’s husband or wife is injured in an accident, all you need to do is show up and say you’re his or her spouse. You will not be questioned. If you show up at the hospital with your legal paperwork, the employees may not know what to do with you. If you simply say, "He's my husband," you will immediately be taken to your spouse's side.

    Defense of Marriage Law

    Even with lesbian and gay marriages being performed and recognized in some states, the Federal Defense of Marriage Law prohibits the federal government from recognizing gay and lesbian relationships. This puts gay and lesbian couples who are married in a legal limbo. How do they file their tax returns? Do they have to pay the tax on their partner’s health insurance? How do they fill out legal and other forms, single or married?

    Creating Civil Unions creates a separate and unequal status for some of America’s citizens. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial court ruled that creating a separate class for gay and lesbian citizens is not permissible and that is why they have voted that only marriage equals marriage. The precedent was set with Brown v. The Board of Education regarding segregation in public education. Ironically, Massachusetts marriage law went into effect on the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education.

    The United States Constitution guarantees equality for all. As you can see, marriage and civil unions are not the same. Creating equal access to marriage is the only fair way to ensure equality for gay and straight couples alike.

    ReplyDelete
  5. http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/wedding/a/marriage.htm

    The Issue

    * Determining whether or not lesbians and gays should be allowed to marry

    * Determining whether gay marriage hurts the institution of heterosexual marriage

    * Determining whether gay marriage hurts or harms children

    Background

    With the recent Supreme Court ruling overturning sodomy laws, Canada’s, San Francisco's and Multnomah County Oregon's moves to allow same sex marriages and the Massachusetts decision, many Americans are wondering, what's the big deal about gay and lesbian marriage?

    Marriage laws in the United States are determined State by State. Although several counties, like Multnomah County Oregon and San Francisco have allowed gays and lesbians to marry, those states overturned the decisions and gays and lesbians cannot marry in those places.

    Thus far only one state, Massachusetts allows same-sex marriage. The courts have ruled that it is illegal NOT to allow two people of the same sex to marry. Most states have passed laws that explicitly exclude same-sex couples from marrying and there is a proposed Constitutional Amendment to try and make the definition of marriage between a man and a woman.

    A handful of states offer Civil Unions to same-sex couples. Civil unions offer many of the rights and responsibilities as marriage, but are not recognized outside of those states.

    California passed a domestic partnership law, similar to Vermont's civil union. Again, these partnerships are only recognized in California.
    Case For Gay Marriage

    Gay rights groups, such as Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders (GLAD) argue that states cannot justify excluding gay and lesbian couples from the institution of marriage and the protection it provides. They argue that only marriage provides a legal safety net protecting couples emotional bonds and economic security.

    Children

    Many opponents of same-sex marriage say that marriage is for the purpose of raising children and that two parents of the same sex are not adequately equipped to raise children. First of all, there is no basis in fact for this opinion. Children do well in homes where they are nutured and loved, regardless of the parents' genders.

    Secondly, many heterosexual couples choose not to or are unable to have children. Yet, their marriages are considered valid.

    Most states allow single gays and lesbians to adopt children, but only 11 allow two same-sex parents to adopt. By allowing gay couples marriage rights, custody will be shared by both parents and no further legal action will be necessary in the event of the legal parent’s death. The American Association of Pediatrics supports gay and lesbian couples adopting and having children.

    Many activists say that the laws prohibiting gay marriage are the same as laws that prevented inter-racial couples from marrying. Those laws are now seen as absurd and discriminatory and were overturned in 1967.
    Case Against Gay Marriage

    Some opponents of gay marriage fear that by allowing same-sex couples to marry, it will lessen the validity of heterosexual marriage. They say marriage is union with the purpose of creating and raising children. They argue that children fare better in household headed by a man and a woman.

    Opponents disagree with equating gay rights with the fight for racial equality. They say that homosexuality is not an inborn trait, but a chosen behavior that does not deserve special protection under the law.

    Some religious leaders say allowing gay marriages will give a stamp of approval to a behavior that they believe is immoral.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Good job all over a political view. This is so silly and FYI I did not choose man over my daughter I chose Taylor and Joshua had to work his butt off to get back to this family. we were without him for a hear and a half. and during that time Taylor and I had gained such an amazing bond.

    ReplyDelete